Curse

Killed u man · Feb 26, 2009, 04:12 PM // 16:12

Meh, the new IWAY is easy beatable, so is Lichway.

Problem still is Teaseway... Stop giving excuses for it not to get nerfed. The build clearly has got some fanboys on this forum.

AI doesn't belong in PvP, hence the term PvP...

EDIT: And if you DO want to be stubborn, like Anet is, and INSIST on AI in PvP, atleast keep it in the boundries of the humanly possible...

Kthxbai

Trinity Fire Angel · Feb 27, 2009, 06:10 AM // 06:10

i hear that heros are going to be out of HA in the next update. as i said tho, its just hearsay (not heresy LOL) and i could be wrong. this, however, came from someone who played Aspenwood with one of the developers for a while after the recent changes.

Edwards · Feb 27, 2009, 07:59 AM // 07:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trinity Fire Angel

i hear that heros are going to be out of HA in the next update.

Hopefully, this is false, and anet will deal with the actual root of the problem for once.

That's doubtful though.

TheHaxor · Feb 27, 2009, 08:28 AM // 08:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by arienrhode

When two of these teams face each other, especially on fetid and chambers it is painfully slow slog out to pressure monk energy and rack up DP on the hard rez...maybe get a lucky interrupt or terrible protting on players knocked down in SH. It's just terribly boring all around...and not going away.

This is why we run the smiter. Hurray for big damage. Anyone who takes the PnH is playing not to lose.

frinoh · Feb 27, 2009, 09:51 PM // 21:51

i was a bit premature tbh. nobody runs anything other than teaseway now, it was just for some days after the double fame weekend that some other builds were run.... oh and i meant a real balanced with no hero's it was being run(at euro hours)

anyway /resign

Eddie Frenzy Spam · Feb 27, 2009, 10:51 PM // 22:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edwards

Hopefully, this is false, and anet will deal with the actual root of the problem for once.

That's doubtful though.

Heroes are the root of the problem

The skills the heroes are running are not problematic. When run on human players they are not overpowered. The problem arises only when heroes run them, due to their amazing ability to interupt anything greater than a 1/4 cast and their prot skills with warding.

It takes a very talented player to be able to prot and interupt as quickly as a hero can, and this is where the problem lies.

daraaksii · Feb 28, 2009, 12:29 AM // 00:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by frinoh

i was a bit premature tbh. nobody runs anything other than teaseway now, it was just for some days after the double fame weekend that some other builds were run.... oh and i meant a real balanced with no hero's it was being run(at euro hours)

anyway /resign

By real balanced you mean a PD mesmer instead of a tease Gwen?

Edwards · Feb 28, 2009, 03:15 AM // 03:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by eddie the reaper

Heroes are the root of the problem

The skills the heroes are running are not problematic. When run on human players they are not overpowered. The problem arises only when heroes run them, due to their amazing ability to interupt anything greater than a 1/4 cast and their prot skills with warding.

It takes a very talented player to be able to prot and interupt as quickly as a hero can, and this is where the problem lies.

Get on a pew pew ranger and spam dshot + savage. You'll be interrupting about as well as a hero.

WoW and PwK have been generally acknowledged as problem skills for some time, but the real problem is the skills which are powerful enough to allow people to run four defensive characters. People may not like playing against heroes, and may find some of their abilities to be incredibly stupid, but the cause of the staleness in the meta is people bringing tons of defense and ony killing with a few skills on four of their characters.

Which would you rather see:

1.) HA with no heroes, the standard meta build being some thing like 3x Mo, Rt, SH, LC, 2x PS

OR

2.) Teams running two monk backlines and using midline utility for their additional defense, with some teams bringing 1-2 heroes.

I'd go with the latter personally, but to each their own.

Golden Rice · Feb 28, 2009, 03:43 AM // 03:43

gimmick a gimmick

FoxBat · Feb 28, 2009, 04:07 AM // 04:07

People are down to just one teaser now, preferring human PnH, so I'd say yeah, heroes aren't the root of the problem.

PwK needs a hit but I'm not sure this is something that can be easily fixed. 3 Mo backline was the meta for quite a while in HA, and as long as WoW/PwK are at least playable, people will bring that for ghostly defense. I can't see people dropping WoW for ghostly protection unless it's A) Smiter's Booned or B) a weapon removal spell is introduced. And in that case would people start running an SB monk again to protect a prot stack from rends? It could be a stronger build now with dual divine healing and deny hexes.

IDK the frequently repeated idea of nuking both PnH and LC might do something.

deluxe · Feb 28, 2009, 04:09 AM // 04:09

Teaseway with 3 monks can't beat the new iway, so this is a good thing. (my experience atleast.)
This will force people to drop something from their 4man backline for some extra damage.

I only play HA when there's heavy melee build's to be played, like Iway! (or byob

)
I've got my tiger ages ago, so now I just wanna hang back and play Iway for some giggles

Don't care about fame or "honor", I care about fun.
Been playing that new iway a bit last 2 days, and the only true counter was balling lichways and bloodspikes. Which we made a counter to aswell.
People saying Iway is easy to beat have probably only faced pugs.

Teh [prefession]-zorz · Mar 03, 2009, 03:23 AM // 03:23

bad meta is bad

warrior running · Mar 03, 2009, 03:45 AM // 03:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by arienrhode

Some teams are running a UG instead of an LC nec now since PnH and lots of party healing makes LC kinda useless.

I prefer ug it's a nice rupter for midline or back or taking pressure of monks and does some damage

Reverend Dr · Mar 03, 2009, 06:29 AM // 06:29

I prefer UG to Savannah. It still does alright AoE, has more utility, and bad teams just don't take much damage from fire anyway. Unless they are terrible, savannah just isn't as useful as it used to be, and if they are terrible we won anyway.

TheHaxor · Mar 03, 2009, 08:57 AM // 08:57

rofl UG is so bad

Reverend Dr · Mar 03, 2009, 11:56 AM // 11:56

So is Tombs. p good match if you ask me.

jackers1234 · Mar 03, 2009, 10:10 PM // 22:10

to be honest, I really dislike the current meta, but it could be made more bareable by a few things, one being get rid of heroes, another being reducing pnh's effectiveness, and tbh, i think, bringing back the use of RC to the prot monk.

I have got a very large amount of my fame from prot monking, (now being r9), and i have been forced to play life sheath by numerous teams, and, besides bar compression, I really cannot see what is so good about it. You get 2 conditions removed, and a small prot, but I still prefer the sizable heal that RC gives. This also gives more time for actual protting.

It would be interesting to hear other people's thoughts on life sheath and peace and harmony.

Arya Nibelrund · Mar 03, 2009, 10:56 PM // 22:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by jackers1234

It would be interesting to hear other people's thoughts on life sheath and peace and harmony.

Life sheat: I don't really like it, I prefer RC. Dunno, maybe it's because I have used RC for more than 1 year but I still find it the best monk elite. The only good thing about LS is that it lets you take shielding hands instead of RoF. The only reason to take LS instead of RC is ofc because everyone now runs 3 monks with PnH which eats all the conditions. And this brings to the biggest issue, the need to take 3 monks because of LC and such. I don't like uber defensive builds, I've always played with 2 monks backline and 1 midliner with WoW and a party heal. PnH is a very good elite, but the fact that it's in Divine attr forces you to take a monk primary to use it. I wish we would go back to a standard 2 monks plus 1 ritualist with warding and kaolai and ress plus splinter/ancestors etc for more damage. Matches in HA are supposed to be quick, having 3 monks only makes the pain longer. I liked when they made me use PnH as a prot with mend condi as a sub of RC

jackers1234 · Mar 03, 2009, 11:05 PM // 23:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arya Nibelrund

I wish we would go back to a standard 2 monks plus 1 ritualist with warding and kaolai and ress plus splinter/ancestors etc for more damage. Matches in HA are supposed to be quick....

Here here. i completely agree with you there. I also have used RC for as long as I have monked in HA (about 2 years now) so my play style is suited to that elite.

I think something needs to change, so that pnh monks are considered redundant/un-necessary, so we can go back to 2 monk backlines, as I found that so much more fun, and much more versatile. Hopefully this will happen soon.

Eddie Frenzy Spam · Mar 05, 2009, 04:34 PM // 16:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edwards

Get on a pew pew ranger and spam dshot + savage. You'll be interrupting about as well as a hero.

That is completely irrelevant to the arguement.

Nobody mentioned pew pew rangers and i'm sure pretty much everyone agrees they are overpowered. However the heroes are not running pew pew rangers so comparing something imbalanced when a person is running it to something that is imbalanced when hero is running it is rediculous, especially when they are not running the same bars or even the same profession.

The point stands that the teaseway bars the heroes run are not that imbalanced. They only become imbalanced when it is the heroes playing them.

Pew Pew rangers are just consistently imbalanced.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edwards

WoW and PwK have been generally acknowledged as problem skills for some time, but the real problem is the skills which are powerful enough to allow people to run four defensive characters. People may not like playing against heroes, and may find some of their abilities to be incredibly stupid, but the cause of the staleness in the meta is people bringing tons of defense and ony killing with a few skills on four of their characters.

Which would you rather see:

1.) HA with no heroes, the standard meta build being some thing like 3x Mo, Rt, SH, LC, 2x PS

OR

2.) Teams running two monk backlines and using midline utility for their additional defense, with some teams bringing 1-2 heroes.

I'd go with the latter personally, but to each their own.

WoW isn't considered that much of a problem when used by actual people. It used to be a greater problem when it could be actively maintained on several people at once but the nerf to 8 second recharge made this impossible. When played with people as well it is a lot harder to prot well with it due to the 1 second cast time and watching multiple frontlines characters in the small HA maps.

However heroes do not need to "watch" the field or anything of that sort and their ability to interupt very quickly and apply WoW nearly as soon as you touch the enemy would take quite a skilled player to replicate. Being able to instantly take such a "skilled player" with the click of a button and with the ability of anybody in the game being able to do this, should not be possible. Sure heroes have their limitations but in straight up 8v8 matches and even in relic runs these are minimal.

As for PwK, yes pretty much everyone agress this was a problem skill, however it has been brought a bit back in line with the reduced armor nerf recently, although remains an excellent skill. However I think this is an exception rather than a rule and the rest of the skills on the bar are not problematic outside of hero bars for the reasons that I have already stated.